Author Topic: Rewiring Speakers  (Read 4333 times)

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« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2009, 08:41:40 PM »
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Simples

So I expect the first thing you tell your customers when you sell them new speakers is to rip out the wiring and rewire them. ?

And while your at it, may as well change the the drive unit. I mean if they can't get something as simple as the wiring right, what chance have they got with the drive units.
None. Think about it, the wiring is the least expensive and easiest to do.

Even somebody whos know bugger all about speakers could get this bit right, and  at no extra cost.

Yet well repected speaker manufactures have no idea what is good wire and not so good wire.


Next time you get the rep in from Dyanaudi kipper ask him and post his reply on the forum.

In fact I'm going to phone Dyaudio tomorrow and ask them.

This is what I will say.

I have just bought some Dynaudio speakers and I have been told by a Dynaudio retailer ( kipper ) that the the wire you use in your speakers is not really up to the mark and he thinks it would be a good idea to rewire them.
I will also ask them why they don't use high quality cable when they make them in the first place, as it would'nt cost them anymore and would save me a lot of time. :) :)

Do what you want mate but don't use my posts as an excuse (although feel free to mention my name and the name of my shop). Maybe you should read my post first before puffing and blowing. It isn't hard and is often advisable to rewire speakers (and no I did not mention Dynaudio). No matter how much you spend on speakers there will always be cable better than the stuff inside them. You must be a fool if you don't appreciate that!

Besides most people who are considering rewiring speakers are talking about older or cheaper speakers OR are bright enough to understand that their speakers are not crap because they don't use the best cable. If you want to pick a fight go and pick it somewhere else.

But I will now make one concession to your "customers champion" advice and I will now tell all my customers from tomorrow morning that no matter how much they spend there will always be better cable than the stuff inside the speakers they are considering (just as there are always better speakers than the ones they are considering. I promise.

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« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2009, 08:53:25 PM »
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It is a simple job and there are many reasons why a particular manufacturer might avoid certain cables and instead choose something "simple". Re-wiring takes no skill and a few tools and there's no reason why you shouldn't have a go if you feel up to it and the product is out of warranty.


I'm all ears kipper. What are the many reasons ? And if the manufacturs have many reasons, why should someone who has never designed, manufactured, and knows bugger all about louadspeakers know better. ?

It dosen't make sense to me. :)

They keep telling us how much R&D goes into their kit and its a no compromise this and that.
State of the art drive units and cabinet design, but they can't get the internal wiring right.

Have you rewired your speakers kipper ?


I just don't get it.

I must have missed this post but I will answer it now; I have rewired every pair of speakers I have ever owned except the pair I now use. I did so because in the past I have chosen certain speaker cable for certain reasons and saw fit to ensure that the same cable was used from amp output to drive unit input (via crossover). The pair I currently use I did not rewire because it had the same cable in it that I currently use.

Everything on God's green Earth is built to a cost. Manufacturers use cable for many reasons. It maybe because it is cheap, low loss, silver plated, available in bulk etc. It may also be because they like the sound of it. No compromise is a overused phrase which refers to anything IMO and almost always refers to price. Even if you know bugger all about speakers but have decided (for example) that you really like Chord oddysey througout there can be no harm in using this cable in short runs from crossover to drive unit. If its beyond you don't do it. But it isn't rocket science.

If Naim Audio tell you that NAC5 is the only cable to use with their electronics - would that preclude or forbid you from trying anything else? It wouldn't me! I find personal taste means a great deal in audio and I let my ears (rather than the diatribe of some of my suppliers) to tell me what's best. If you can except that speaker cable sounds different why not that placed inside the cabinet? I really don't get it.

Finally the fact that you don't get it I totally respect. Some people who read this might get it though.

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« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2009, 08:58:51 PM »
Oh and another thing you can do is replace the crap connectors on the back of many speakers with decent ones. Cheap as chips. And I don't mean Dynaudio Gios.

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« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2009, 09:14:33 PM »
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Oh and another thing you can do is replace the crap connectors on the back of many speakers with decent ones. Cheap as chips. And I don't mean Dynaudio Gios.


I'll phone Dynaudio tomorrow kipper, after all they are the experts. I'll tell them what youv'e said and see what response I get.
Oh and another thing, just because some speaker connections may look cheap and nasty it doesn't mean they're not doing proper job.  :)

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« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2009, 09:26:56 PM »
Please do if you think it will enlighten you. And they are certainly the experts on Dynaudio. Finally; most connectors that look really crappy are not doing a proper job. I did not say ALL by the way.

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« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2009, 09:55:14 PM »
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Please do if you think it will enlighten you. And they are certainly the experts on Dynaudio. Finally; most connectors that look really crappy are not doing a proper job. I did not say ALL by the way.


kiipper, I'm not wanting to pick a fight with anyone. This guy has some Dynaudi Focus 110s.

About 800 worth of high quality speaker ( I think you'll agree )
In my opinion rewiring these would be foolish to say the least. despite quite a few people on these forums recommending and encouraging him to do this, it is something I would not recommend. I don't think  many hi-fi dealers would recommend. And I'm pretty damn sure Dynaudio would'nt recommend.

 I would'nt want him to mess up a perfectly good set of speakers because of some advice from people who have no idea about speaker manufacture or design.

Too many people on these forums are  obsessed with bloody wire.
And its only because they can get their hands on it.  The bits of wire the can't get at or  don't have the expertise to change, they leave well alone. And those that do have the expertise know better and leave well alone.

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« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2009, 11:35:56 PM »
Gios,

I don't see your point - oh hang on, you don't have a point!!

Why are you so bitter about these topics? As I've said before - adding a better quality cable WILL make a positive difference. Fact!

Dynaudio (as all other manufacturers) know that better wire will yield better results! Another fact! However, as a business - they need to build a product to a price/performance ratio - like a car. So, they spend money on the main components, and to compensate, reduce spending on such elements as internal wiring. Simple really! Obviously they could choose ANY cable in the world, but they don't and they choose cheapies!

So Gios, are you telling us that all wires 'sound' the same? Yes or no!?!

It's not about obsession with wires, it's about a relatively cheap upgrade that can yield worthwhile results - why wouldn't anyone try to get the best out of what they've got? Surely, as a consumer that is a great idea!!
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« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2009, 12:12:35 AM »
It's true. You can't see what cables are inside speakers (wthout taking them apart) so manufacturers can get away with anything.

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« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2009, 10:09:01 AM »
I'm off to the pub to rewire the Stella Artois pump with some Nordost Baldur.

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« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2009, 11:03:56 AM »
This is what Dynaudio say about their products.


For the past 30 years Dynaudio as realized it own loudspeaker concepts through complete vertical integration of  all aspects of engineering, development and production.
The net result is a perfect balance of audiophile sensibilities and real word value in a broad range of products for advanced music and home theatre systems


Only the finest grade materials and components are utilized in production, the innovative Dyanaudio aluminium voice coils, proprietary, MSP. ( Magnesium silicate polymer driver diaphragms ) soft dome tweeters especially coated for advanced performance capabilities, and high quality crossover units- All incorporated into hand built  furniture grade cabinets, finished in the finest natural wood veneers serve as the foundation of products designed to offer state of the art performance and enduring value.

I've phoned Dynaudio and I can only get to leave a message, I've also e-mailed them.
I'll keep trying though.


dancarny, I'm not bitter I know thats how it may come across on the forum.

I just don't believe you, or anyone else on these forums knows more about loudspeakers the Dynaudio or any other loudspeaker manufacture.


Apart from kipper :)  I don't think you will find any hi-fi retailer or speaker manufacture that would recommend you rewire your speakers.

kipper it entiteld to his view just like anyone else, although I would have thought someone in his position would not have encouraged someone to do this.

If fact I'm suprised he didn't discourage it.

But there you go. I'll let you know what Dynaudio say when I hear from them.

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« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2009, 12:03:09 PM »
Thats fair enough, but it you're not happy with the way the manufacture describes their product, then don't buy it.



In this instance I don't think kipper is giving good advice with regards the rewiring of Focals. I think Dyanaudio with all their expertise are the best people to decide what type of wire to use.

Even kipper admits they're the experts on their products.

My advice would be leave it to the experts. :)

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« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2009, 12:11:23 PM »
My E-mail

Hi, I hope you can help me, I have a pair of Dynaudi Focus 110s.
I've been told that I can improve their performance by rewiring them. Apparently the cable you use isn't that good and rewiring would bring about a substantial improvement. If this is the case what cable to you recommend I use.
 
Regards




DYNAUDIO REPLY.


Dear Ron,

 

Our engineers have spent many long hours deciding on the right balance for this speaker, every component was chosen for a specific purpose and the speaker is treated as a whole no a bunch of parts. Changing the internal cable, without any knowledge of what the Dynaudio engineers wanted to achieve, does no guarantee an improvement. In fact, not only does it immediately invalidate your warranty, it will ruin what is one of the most balanced speakers at it?s price point.

 

Spend your money improving the signal going into the speakers.

 

Regards

 

Dynaudio International GmbH  |  Sales

 

Mike Picanza  - Sales Manager UK

mpicanza@dynaudio.de

Phone +44 (0)7970 074717

 

I rest my case M,lord.

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« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2009, 01:59:27 PM »
Designers and engineers work to a price-point (when pushed :D ).

At the risk of bringing up cars again, that's why there is a healthy aftermarket for performance improvement products - these are things that didn't fall inside the deisgners specification, parts or manufacturing budget.  Even the best cars can be further improved.

Back to hifi then - there will always be choices made at the design and concept stage that determine the component and manufacturing costs that are commercially viable at every price point.  

It's an emotive word that shouldn't be taken the wrong way but commercial design is about achieving the best 'compromise'.

Behind the veneer of the marketing there will have been some careful choices made to achieve the product performance - so I fully agree, at Dynaudio (other speaker brands available!) their engineers will have spent long hours considering where to spend their cost budget to achieve the overall aim.
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« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2009, 02:34:35 PM »
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Designers and engineers work to a price-point (when pushed :D ).

Indeed we do - when pushed :)


I know a little about this having been both the 'pusher' and the 'pushee'! :P
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« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2009, 02:51:14 PM »
I note that Dynaudio's response was from a "sales person".  I'd be interested to hear the view of a designer/engineer; it would also be interesting to know what internal wires Dyn use.
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